Shawn Cordner (00:13.038)
Hey everyone and welcome to the Amplitude of Tech Podcast. I’m Shawn Cordner, Chief Marketing Officer of Amplix. This is the Inside Amplix edition of the podcast. What does that mean? We’re going to bring you thought leadership from Amplix employees, actionable intel and insights that we’ve learned by doing thousands and thousands of technology transformation projects. Hope you enjoy the episode.

Shawn Cordner (00:38.446)
All right, Tommy Mullins, welcome to the podcast.

Tommy Mullins (00:41.632)
Awesome. Thanks for having me, Shawn.

Shawn Cordner (00:43.522)
Happy to have you here. Tommy, just tell the audience a little bit about who you are, what you do here at Amplix.

Tommy Mullins (00:49.922)
Yeah, no problem. So my official title is is VP of Operations and Service Delivery. It’s kind of a a fancy title for all things pro services and managed services. And the way I kind of look at this is I’m at the an in interesting intersection. So everything that that happens when a customer decides to move forward with Amplix from a professional services standpoint kind of rolls under me. So, you know, once once pro services go from contract into go live.

my my service delivery team takes over. or if it’s on an AI perspective, we have an AI and advanced solutions team that that can be doing that work as well. And then once those things get wrapped up, my managed services team kind of keeps them running, optimized, and then improving things after that. So in in theory, my my job here is to make sure that all those things work together and then what we’re delivering is real outcomes and and not just completing projects.

Shawn Cordner (01:45.89)
That’s great. Good way to frame it. if I think about how Amplix goes to market, we have basically four different service areas. The first is strategy and this is your technology road mapping or figuring out how to modernize or migrate. and then you’ve got evaluation and procurement, which is okay, you’ve got your strategy and now need to go out and procure this technology. So we’re gonna help you run that process and

you know, evaluate the the right solutions, evaluate the right vendors, and then help you through the decision making process. So then you start to pick up once that decision making process has been completed. So you help with the implementation services and then ongoing support for the technology that was deployed, giving us full life cycle coverage. So maybe you can give an example of what are some of the pro services and some of the managed services that we offer.

Tommy Mullins (02:37.632)
Yeah, no problem. So I always tell my team as well as our clients that our job isn’t just to install software. Our job is to help customers kind of achieve their outcomes on the software that’s being delivered. and so my my team can handle anything from from Genesis, Five Nine, Zoom, Ring Central, NICE CX1, from from from that perspective, as well as being certified in across the board for my engineers.

and then our managed services team supports those as well, right? So we provide managed services for for Genesis, Five Nine, Zoom, Ring Central. and that team is is comprised of of US based resources that allow our clients to, once they’ve gone live from a pro services perspective, to call into us, either or go to our web portal, have an opportunity for them to to to open a case with us. We triage those things. and and oftentimes we we

you know, clients say you you guys might be seeming like a middleman. We’re we’re not a middleman. What we’re trying to do is is be an extension of people’s teams on a managed services perspective and overlaying our value there of being able to to assist them with, you know, break fix situations or as well as like moves, ads and changes. and there’s some additional value ads that the managed services team provides to to our clients.

Shawn Cordner (03:50.38)
No, you and your team are in a unique position, I think, because you’re providing direct services to the end user and you’re seeing this technology from a different perspective than maybe our sales team or analysts might see it, right? You’re you’re actually you live where the rubber meets the road in terms of this technology. So I’m sure you’ve got a pretty unique perspective on what’s trending, what’s happening in the industry, how AI has impacted it. So can you just kind of give me an overview of

How you see the landscape today?

Tommy Mullins (04:21.557)
Yeah. My observations really is is the accountability shift, right? So accountability is the word that I just keep coming back to. So CX leaders are are really being held to to real business outcomes now in in a way that they they probably weren’t just a few years ago. And so it used to be like you need to hit your service levels, you need to be hitting CSAT to obtain, you know, a certain threshold. But but now I’m seeing and and hearing that more, you know, more CFOs want to be

knowing what’s going on in their spend. The CEO wants to know why self-service isn’t handling more volume. So that bar has has really moved. the the shift to to cloud is is really behind us, right? So the the move from on premise to cloud is is quite honestly largely done. And so that was the conversation that we had a few years ago. But today it’s like now that you’re on the cloud, what are what are you actually doing with it? And so the platforms like you know Genesis five nine

Zoom, Ring Central, they’ve they’ve really matured significantly. I think the differentiator isn’t really just the platform anymore. It’s it’s whether the your organization is is ready to use it. And so I think that like AI has really compressed that timeline. You know, AI has changed expectations in a big way. Organizations that used to think about automation as a three-year roadmap are now being asked to like show results in in six months. And and that pressure is is real.

and it creates risks and if organizations skip that prep work and and our team I feel like does a great job of of walking in and and helping them meet them where they are at that point in time. And you know, everyone’s talking about AI, but it’s the organizations that are winning, are starting by getting their data and processes right the first time. So that’s kind of where I think that the industry’s at right now from from a CX perspective.

Shawn Cordner (06:15.286)
So you said you give the example earlier that CEOs and CFOs are really looking for outcomes now and ROI. the example you gave was a CEO asking, why aren’t we automating more? And to me, what that kind of alludes to is maybe a disconnect about what actually matters in the customer experience to create the outcomes that you want to achieve. because sometimes the metrics that the contact center go by

are misleading, right? your call containment could be a misleading indicator because you may be containing a call, but maybe you’re not actually giv giving a good experience or getting a good outcome on that. And I we hear from a lot of experts on here that you have to know when to implement AI and not just implement it broadly, but implement it in high leverage ways that are going to help you achieve the outcomes that you’re trying to achieve. So all that is to say

If a a contact center decision maker is approaching AI in a way that is measured and they’re getting pressure from the CFO or the CEO, save us money and automate more, how do you build kind of a defensible position of why you may not be accelerating the adoption in the way that they think you should?

Tommy Mullins (07:36.096)
Yeah. I I I look at it of what do successful clients do? So I look at it in a couple categories. Number one, executive sponsorship. Number one, without question, is executive sponsorship. And and I don’t just mean, you know, a VP who signed off on budget. I mean a senior leader who is is visible and engaged throughout the entire project. so when when something gets hard.

and oftentimes some things always do get hard, is it’s that’s executive sponsorship is what keeps the project from stalling. And without it, you know, decisions that should take a day take three weeks. And so the the second area is defined outcomes and not a feature list, right? So successful clients come in knowing what they’re trying to achieve in their business terms and not we want to move to the cloud or we want AI. More like we want to reduce.

Reduce escalations by 20% and improve first contact resolution. That specifically changes things. That allows us to meet them where they need to be at the where their goals are. third is change management as as core work, right? So the best organizations treat change management as like a part of their project, not something that happens alongside it. Not a training session for a week before go live. It I think it’s baked in from day one on change management.

And then lastly, I would say, you know, planning for postgo live before the project ends. And that’s kind of where our managed services come in. So to me, this is this is a huge one. Who owns the platform after the project closes? Right. So if we’ve helped them get the project live, you know, our clients can either choose to use our managed services or they can go direct to the manufacturer. But who handles the ongoing optimization? What does support look like on day 60, right?

The organizations that kind of plan for that before, and are needing to complete, you know, a different position are the ones that really figure it out afterwards. And so where I see the most successful clients treat their CX as a business initiative, not just a technology initiative.

Shawn Cordner (09:38.796)
Yeah, that makes total sense. I also wonder too, you were talking about AI adoption and and how having the data right and fixing your processes are so important before you implement AI. what does that actually look like in practice? Like where are people going wrong with their data? What does good data look like? And why do you need to clean up the processes and which are the ones that you see most often might be broken when trying to you know, overlay AI onto it?

Tommy Mullins (10:08.352)
Yeah. So to me this comes down to kind of common mistakes that I’m seeing is as I alluded to, IT project versus business transformation, right? So the most common one is is treating an implementation like an IT project when it’s actually business transformation. So the technology team owns the deployment, but no one’s really owning the business change. And so you end up with like a technically successful implementation, but nobody uses it the way that it was intended, right? So

You know, that also goes into like underestimating process and and redesign. So organizations assume like when you when they move to a new platform, will it fit their existing workflows? And it and it usually doesn’t. And honestly, to me, I think that that’s a good thing. But if you’re only ready to do the work of like redesigning the process, a lot of organizations aren’t thinking about it from that perspective. So to me, that leads into

core requirement gathering, right? And I feel like our team does a really good job of like meeting people where they are in in regards to their their transformation of understanding what those requirements are going to need to be and then ultimately handing it to my team for deployment. So th this one really hurts if you if you don’t do it right until you’re testing and then something doesn’t work in the way of like the way that the business expected. So good scoping up front is is not glamorous work. oftentimes people want to rush it and and get things done and

in an hour, but when you’re making an investment of this size and and you need to provide results, I think that that’s where projects are won or lost, even when it’s, you know, tech tech technically successful. And then lastly, you know, when when you are getting ready to roll out AI, I think that oftentimes people wait too long to to think about their support. And even though AI is up and going, you’re constantly needing to to fine tune

the the large language model or you know how the AI, the virtual agent that they’re being, you know, rolling out. And so companies spend, you know, six months on an implementation and then they think about after support, you know, two weeks before things happen. Right. And so I think that that imbalance will show up pretty quickly if if you’re not thinking about it from when the project starts. So I think the way I would say it is technology is usually the easy part, but the hard part is aligning people, processes and and expectations.

Shawn Cordner (12:27.766)
you have any tips on how to do that? I mean, that that’s always the challenge with any kind of new technology. And I think AI is is acutely harder, maybe, to because there’s not a lot of history around it. Like this is a new thing, right? So people adopting AI is is an entirely new process and there’s sometimes friction involved with people being willing to to take that step and learn something.

News. So when you talk about change management and and really sounds like you’re talking about people management as well, what are some tips that kind of create that culture and you know help facilitate better adoption after the fact?

Tommy Mullins (13:10.114)
Yeah, I to me I think that, you know, we do a lot of that through our our pro services team, right? So we we can do it on the front end when we’re meeting them through like transformation where we can bring in, you know, a consultant to walk them through and do a myriad of different interviews with business leaders across the organization and come back and give them a readout of of what we’ve heard, right? And oftentimes like I talked about when when an IT project or an IT team has, you know, been handed this project and from from the the maybe the CEO.

And they say, you know, how how do we get this accomplished is where we can come in and provide really good consulting on the the front end and come back and say, you know, it’s not about just implementing and and using the buzzwords of AI. We need AI to have AI. It’s it’s making sure that the technology is working for them and then aligning those processes and expectations. Now, when it comes to like the pro services side of things, where that’s really our our wheelhouse at its core.

I think that that’s where Pro Services really kind of reduces the distance between where where you need to be as fast as possible with little risk as possible. So the platforms that our clients are are are deploying are are really powerful. but power requires configuration. Configuration requires good judgment. And so knowing which approach works in which situation and knowing where

Traps are or knowing where to get an organization to come from a contract to a functional contact center. I think that’s where experienced services team like Amplix really, really brings. I think methodology matters as well. So not because it just looks good in a proposal, but because I think it creates predictability. our clients know what’s happening when and what’s expected of them because they own that business. But I think that this the structure.

is what keeps projects on track when things get really complicated. You know, my team’s done, I think, over 400 AI implementations to date. And so I I think some of that comes down to to governance is is just as important, right? So who’s making decisions? Who has the authority to to change scope? How are how are risks surfaced early? You know, these aren’t administrative questions. These are differences between a smooth project and and a in a messy one, right?

Tommy Mullins (15:30.828)
So again, our our our job isn’t just to install software. I think our job is to help our clients achieve the outcome that they bought the software to to deliver. and I think experience from our consultants have seen failures in the past, right? So they don’t know just how to build something. They they know what goes wrong and why. And and they intervene before it becomes a problem. So scope creep.

integration surprises, stakeholder misalignment, maybe mid project where maybe they were left out of the the the scoping aspect and now we’re mid flight and things happen. You know, a strong services team like like ourselves here at Amplix, I think manages those situations instead of just reacting to them.

Shawn Cordner (16:14.914)
So having a a proven methodology and experienced people are going to reduce risks and accelerate outcomes. so once you’ve got that technology implemented, I’ve heard you say before that going live is just the starting line, not the finish line. And so l what does that mean and what does the rest of this process look like?

Tommy Mullins (16:37.302)
Yeah, so that’s like I think where our managed services is comes into play, right? And so, you know, go live is is a milestone and it should be, you know, absolutely praised and and celebrated. but it’s not just an outcome, right? So the outcome is whether, you know, six months later, twelve months later, is is the platform doing what is it’s supposed to do? And is the organization and our clients actually better off, right? And so the the gap between go live and actual value realization.

where most organizations struggle. And so the implementation team moves on, right? We they’ve done their work. The internal team is now responsible for something that is pretty complex and they now have to be fully equipped to to run and optimize. again, go live is not the finish line, it’s it’s the starting line. So I break this down into a couple different categories, right? So expert support versus break fix support. Anyone can just

open a ticket. And what most organizations need is someone who knows knows their environment intimately, understands their goals, and can help them continuously improve and not just react when when something breaks. Right. And so that was the model when, you know, people were on premise-based systems many years ago. And we’ve made that shift to the cloud now. And so we we aren’t just, you know, reactive support. We want to be proactive support. The next category I would say is strategic guidance. So it’s not just like

keeping lights on and things working, it’s here’s a feature that you’re not using. Would you like to solve that problem that you mentioned last month? It’s, it’s here’s what we’re seeing across other organizations like yours or vertical. That’s the kind of like ongoing guidance that turns a platform investment into honestly a long lasting value and and and ROI. Next category is I’d say it’s it’s client advocacy, right? So when something goes wrong with a with a platform vendor

Our managed services team is is really in your corner. That’s why we’re not just, you know, a middleman. We we want to look to ourselves and an extension of of of their team. And so we know how to navigate those relationships and get things resolved faster. I personally have relationships at various of those platforms where I can shoot an email off and say we need to get traction from this perspective that a client probably wouldn’t be able to do if they if they went direct. Right. And so,

Tommy Mullins (18:58.446)
The bottom line is, you know, organizations that get the most out of their platform investment are are the ones that are not just with the biggest budgets, they’re the ones that are consistently looking for expert attention over time. And and I think that that’s where our managed services team comes into play.

Shawn Cordner (19:13.826)
We’ve gone about five minutes without mentioning AI and that’s not allowed, so I’m gonna bring it back up. AI is being leveraged in the contact center all over the place, but what do you see is actually working versus, you know, something that is not quite there yet?

Tommy Mullins (19:30.572)
Yeah. I mean, I I wanna be honest. The the AI stuff i is real because there there is a lot of noise, but the promise is real, right? So the hype is real also. So the gap between the two is where most organizations are sitting right now. And so what I can tell you that what I’m seeing across our client base is that organizations that get real ROI have had a few things in common. They they started with a specific problem.

not just a broad initiative of we need AI. They they cleaned up their data, they cleaned up their processes first, and then they were able to and willing to iterate, right? And so the companies that again are seeing the biggest AI successes aren’t replacing people. They’re they’re eliminating that friction. And I think that that starts with getting their data clean and their processes right first. in a couple areas of where I see this are are, you know, agent assist, right? So

Faster path to ROI from agent assist. This is probably the cleanest way to do this right now. Real-time suggestions, surfacing knowledge in the moment, flagging compliance issues as they happen. agents are becoming faster, customers are waiting less, supervisor because supervisors can now focus, you know, I think on coaching instead of fighting fires for for those agents. And so that’s that’s real quick ROI and and adoption that’s a little bit easier.

because you’re helping agents do what they do better, but you know, not changing how they work, if that makes sense. Virtual agents, it’s obviously another buzz, but it’s something that I think that if designed well, will will go well. And if and if they’re not, they’re gonna become things that customers are are gonna be trying to escape from. Right. And so I think to me, the design matters the most. Conversational flow.

fallback experience, where their escalation path is, all of that has to be thought out, I think, before you build and and and not after when it comes to a virtual agent perspective. I think we’ve all probably had that experience lately. another category of AI that we’re seeing, you know, and you know traction take off right now is is is is knowledge management, right? It’s the unglamorous foundation, right? So a lot of AI capabilities depend on clean knowledge base.

Tommy Mullins (21:42.988)
And so if your content is is out of date or unstructured, your your virtual agent is is really gonna struggle. And so I go back to what I opened with is that cleaning up your data and your processes, it’s not exciting, but it’s it’s critical and it’s foundational. And so, you know, that the the misconceptions that are happening here is that AI is gonna replace all agents and that it’s plug and play. and that wrote

th that results, you know, happen im immediately, but the organizations that have been burned by AI initiatives, you know, usually tried to skip the preparation work and go straight to deployment. And so again, I think that technology’s the easy part. Readiness is is the work.

Shawn Cordner (22:26.07)
Yes, we just had a podcast recorded the other day and I can’t remember which guest it was, but he brought up the the Klarna situation. Are you familiar with that? Klarna is, you know, the like I don’t know what you call microfinancing or whatever. If you’re checking out on on Amazon and you wanna finance the thing that you’re buying through through Klarna. So they they build out their

Tommy Mullins (22:35.542)
I’m not.

Shawn Cordner (22:50.186)
AI agents and they were having success with it. So they fired seven hundred live agents and left it all AI. And within a year they had to hire all seven hundred people back because it was predictably a disaster. okay, so let’s let’s look ahead. I mean, the way that things are moving right now, it’s hard to predict tomorrow, let alone, you know, two to three years out. But you know, give me a view of where you think where what are some trends and where do you think things are heading and

what’s some practical advice for CX leaders that are looking at making an investment now?

Tommy Mullins (23:23.702)
Yeah. So looking ahead where I would say in the next two to three years, coming from a CX leader my myself is I think ROI accountability is coming for for everybody, right? So the next two to three years are gonna be about consolidation, accountability. organizations have made a lot of platform decisions over the years and now that they’re now needing to justify them, right? So the ROI is probably gonna be the biggest conversation during every EBR and QBR that that’s happening.

AI maturity forces, you know, process discipline is is another thing that I’m I’m focused on. So you can’t automate a broken process, right? So organizations that haven’t done again the that that process work are are gonna hit a ceiling. And that ceiling gets a little bit more painful as AI expectations increase. And so the ones who have built a good foundation are are the ones that are pulling ahead. But we’re seeing that in our client base. And again, ongoing support becomes very strategic, right? So

organizations that are starting to realize, you know, ongoing expert attention isn’t just a cost center. It’s it’s a competitive advantage. And so the ones that are treating it in a way that are going to be running circles around the ones who just treat it as support, as a line item is is to minimize that. Right. And so I think that those are kind of the areas that I feel are are where I’m I’m looking ahead and some of the trends that I’m seeing at the moment.

Shawn Cordner (24:46.168)
Sounds like sounded advice. Tommy Mullins, thanks for sharing your time and expertise with us.

Tommy Mullins (24:51.63)
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.